last minute christmas present

[Woodland]

I don't understand those who blame guns for gun crime.We've had a few brutal murderers here (in Hungary) recently.One guy killed his family with a machete another guy with a chainsaw...If somebody wants to kill he will do it. It's not the weapon that kills.How many crimes are comitted with legal weapons?0,01% or so? But politicians are allowed to carry guns.Even a major is allowed to carry a pistol.
I dont say that guns should be available for everybody.There must be a selection (psycho test), a test procedure (basic weapons training,safety,handling,shooting) before one is allowed to buy a gun.Having a gun is responsibility.
Plus:There is no such thing as "home defense" here.Unfortunately.Many people in this area ( I live 100m away from the National Park)live in remote farms and gypsies regulary steal and rob them, take away their money and everything they can.Farm people are not allowed to have pistols of course.I often go to the forest but I don't feel safe without some weapon (usually a knife).
If one would say that guns are more dangerous than knives...did you hear that in China a crazy guy stabbed 23 people?Wasn't the first time...
Many years ago a 5 guys took away a policeman's wallet (he was off duty) and wanted to beat him with baseball bats and chains.The policeman went to the ground but was able to shoot 3 of them and one died.He almost went to jail because the judge said his defense had been too violent compared to the attack...i.e. the attackers didn't have firearms...Idiots.What do you think he should have done?That hasn't changed much since then.An old man led eletricity into his fence that killed a thief last year...despite the warning sign that the old guy had carefully put on the fence.The old man was charged with murder..He was sentenced but suspended.
Most people think weapons are for killing but I say: target shooting is an excellent sport.Needs very good skills.
As for suicide.It's not the weapon that kills.People use whatever they think quick and lethal.
The USA is special. Why is it that there are many developed countries where people have at least as many guns per capita and gun crime is much less or even insignificant?

[housil]

gypsies regulary steal and rob them, take away their money and everything they can.

I´m "glad" to hear even you "over there" have the problems with the gypsies

Due to they were persecuted by the Nazi regime at WW2, they are still allowed to camp everywhere with their trailer groups. The local mayor MUST give them hospitality for free.
So having such a gypsy camp next to your house, guard your poperty all night long. They are sneaking from house to house, sending their underaged kids to spy out your place to see where they can get "something".

I "armed" our house with IR survillance camera etc. That´s the only defence we are allowed to have against burglars. Also our cops are not allwed to shoot an offender that has no firearm. They are only allowed to use "equal" force, better let the offender escape than shoot that bad guy

[fdsman]

When they outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.

Think about that statement.

[Treesuit]

When they outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.

Yes, I'm afraid this is what our society as well as European society is coming too.

[sodjer]

the reason why we are in this state is because there are groups within our societies intent on removing our freedoms and the reason why?is because they can,they have nothing to lose,if they lose this battle they move on to another and another,they dont bring anything to the fight ,but if they dont win ,they have lost nothing.And these fights are alway disguised as being for our own good or safety or the safety of the planet.you americans MUST stick together or your fight is lost,that is from my own experience. davy

[Treesuit]

Davy,

Is that just happening in your country or across Europe?

[fdsman]

When I joined this forum in 2005, I was 12 years old. The Clinton AWB had just expired and I knew absolutely nothing, nor cared anything about guns.

In fact I may have believed guns were evil and should be banned all together.

Fast forward seven years and I can't wait to get my hands on some sweet freedom protecting machinery.

Have any of you guys in the US looked into 80% guns? So far the only ones I've found are AR15 lowers, 10/22 receivers, 1911 frames. These are legally not a firearm, which was even determined by the ATF. All you have to do is finish a few features on it yourself, and you have a working firearm with no record of creation, no registration, etc, etc.

Many machine shops that have a CNC machine have the ability to take files freely available on the internet and can rent the machine out to you which results in a professionally manufactured unlisted, unregistered firearm.

the AR15 lowers can be had for as little as $80. Ares Armor and KT Ordinance both make 80% 1911 frames for around $200.00

[sodjer]

treesuit ,i cant speak for the rest of europe ,but in the uk we have pressure groups intent on pushing their ideas on you,mainly greens the rest, health and safety freaks. after we lost our firearms i moved onto 4x4 with the intentions of a small business,soon in to that the greens and lefts removed the vehiclar access to 80 % of the rights of way in the uk.
fdsman,i wish making firearms was this easy(especially on a magical cnc machine),but seriously it is a bit harder than that and ive been messin with them for the last 35 years (cnc for the last 20 years).fight these people as one with one loud voice though the NRA and where you can vote them out of office,do it.its the only thing they understand.
when i set up my firearms business i had a few inventive ideas and applied for government development grants ,the lady official i dealt with said she was horrified someone could make the firearms i was, there was a one year legal fight a dismissal and a payout and i got my grant.

[fdsman]

treesuit ,i cant speak for the rest of europe ,but in the uk we have pressure groups intent on pushing their ideas on you,mainly greens the rest, health and safety freaks. after we lost our firearms i moved onto 4x4 with the intentions of a small business,soon in to that the greens and lefts removed the vehiclar access to 80 % of the rights of way in the uk.
fdsman,i wish making firearms was this easy(especially on a magical cnc machine),but seriously it is a bit harder than that and ive been messin with them for the last 35 years (cnc for the last 20 years).fight these people as one with one loud voice though the NRA and where you can vote them out of office,do it.its the only thing they understand.
when i set up my firearms business i had a few inventive ideas and applied for government development grants ,the lady official i dealt with said she was horrified someone could make the firearms i was, there was a one year legal fight a dismissal and a payout and i got my grant.

I'm not sure if I explained it correctly, around the gun forums here, many of the members that live near each other contact a machine shop and organize a group buy of 80% ar15 lowers.

They look like this:



These are legally not firearms per a BATF determination and an exemption in the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.

Once you finish the remaining operations on the lower, it looks like this:



Even if you don't have access to a machine shop or a CNC machine, there are jigs available and you could finish it on a drill press or mill.





All the other parts required to complete a rifle are available for purchase and shipping directly to your door, no regulation. What legally counts as the firearm is the receiver.

[sodjer]

ah i understand now, i thought you meant the whole reciever,but what about the upper reciever?
i wouldnt fancy using that drilling jig and expecting accuracy :
one thing i found when i went back to a bolt gun(1988),cooper had laid out his scout rifle concept and i whole heartly enbraced it.
if i could have any rifle again ,it wouldnt be the accurissed l1a1 or the g3a4(both rifles i used in the forces)that i had owned,it would be my little scout rifle a mauser action,with a short (18in)heavy barrel with an australian made fibreglass stock,it had the cooper cartridge holders in the stock,it could be fed from stripper clips and had a low power long eye relief scope ,6lbs and shorter than and more accurite than an m4