Craigslist and eBay: Terrorist arms bazaars of DEATH

[Wookard]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/13 ... s_bazaars/

Just found this today. The military/government is getting pretty mad antsy about all of the military goods for sale on the internet...

[kman]

Great article! Wow...sometimes these British journalists are fun to read. I knew I was onto a great read when I read this after they listed the things the GAO was able to buy online:

So far, so bullshit.

Buying uniforms, body armor, and NBC suits isn't exactly proprietary military tech. Sure, these items can be used by bad guys but they can also be purchased just about anywhere by anyone.

They also had this quote from the GAO report:

We also investigated sales of military meals, ready-to-eat (MRE) and found a robust market for stolen military MREs on eBay and Craigslist. Both civilians and service members sold us numerous cases of new/unused military MREs despite the fact that they were marked “US Government Property, Commercial Resale Is Unlawful.”

Come on. This is petty theft at best. (Indeed, if the dreaded MREs are really ending up in terrorist hands, this could be a blow for democracy. US troops have often found their MREs so disgusting that they will swap most of their personal equipment for other nations' relatively palatable combat rations.)

Read the full article above and also check the PDF of the GAO report here:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08644t.pdf

As funny as that quote about MREs above is, I read further into the GAO report and it appears they really did their homework this time. While I don't subscribe to the notion that "all MRE sales are illegal" (because I know of genuine surplussing of MREs and also MREs for disaster relief), there does appear to be a rampant problem with these sales on eBay. Check out the MRE-specific section below.

And take note of the Louisiana seller - I'm guessing this is CAJUN CLARA/CAJUN ANGEL.

We also investigated sales of military meals, ready-to-eat (MRE) and found a robust market for stolen military MREs on eBay and Craigslist. Both civilians and service members sold us numerous cases of new/unused military MREs despite the fact that they were marked “U.S. Government Property, Commercial Resale Is Unlawful.” Because the military MREs we bought had been originally purchased by the government for use by U.S. troops, we conclude that these MREs were stolen from DOD. For example, we found that an active duty Army Private First Class stationed in South Korea stole military MREs from a warehouse and sold them to us on eBay. After our referral, Army CID executed a search warrant of the seller’s residence and discovered a substantial amount of stolen U.S. military property, as well as nearly $2,000 in cash. The seller was subsequently linked to a string of larcenies on the base and is currently serving over 3 years in prison.

MREs

Military MREs are designed to sustain an individual engaged in strenuous activity, such as military training or actual military operations, when normal food service facilities are not available. In general, military MREs are boxed in cases of 12. Each MRE contains a full meal packet in a flexible bag. The cases and bags for military MREs are marked with the words “U.S. Government Property, Commercial Resale Is Unlawful.” Although we do not consider MREs to be sensitive property, military MREs are procured by government entities using taxpayer dollars and are intended to be consumed by individuals from authorized organizations and activities. Consequently, if military MREs are sold to the general public on the Internet, they are clearly not reaching their intended recipients and represent a waste of taxpayer dollars. Since service members are not authorized to take MREs and sell them for personal gain, the vast majority of the military MREs for sale on the Internet represent stolen military property.

During our investigation, we purchased numerous cases of MREs from eBay and Craigslist sellers. The sellers were mostly civilians. Three examples of our investigative work related to military MREs follows:

- One civilian seller in Louisiana* indicated that she has been selling military MREs on eBay for a number of years. She said that she acquires the MREs from service members assigned to a nearby military base, and that they arrive at her home unannounced. She added that most of the service members have 2 or 3 MRE cases but that others have had as many as 10 to 12 cases. She told us that she does not know any of the service members or where they get the MREs, but suggested they are “left over” from field exercises. She said that she usually pays service members about $20 per case in cash and that she can sell the cases on eBay for about $55 per case. We reviewed eBay records and learned that, from September 2006 through February 2008, she completed eBay auctions totaling about $55,000 for MREs. These MREs were likely stolen from the nearby military base. We referred this case to Army CID for criminal investigation.

* We have removed detailed information about the location of this seller because of an ongoing investigation by Army CID, which was based on our referral.

- A second seller living in Phenix City, Alabama, is employed as a civilian aircraft mechanic at Fort Benning, Georgia. She told us that she obtains military MREs from dumpsters at Fort Benning. She stated that she visits the dumpsters several times a week, removing unopened MREs from the dumpsters and cleaning, packaging, and mailing them to her eBay customers. According to sales data provided by eBay, from July 30, 2006, to February 6, 2008, this individual had completed approximately $54,000 in MRE auctions. Because of the volume of sales activity we referred this case to Army CID for criminal investigation.

- A third seller was a Private First Class in the U.S. Army stationed in Camp Casey, South Korea. Based on our referral, Army CID executed a search warrant at the seller’s residence and discovered a substantial amount of stolen U.S. military property, as well as nearly $2,000 in cash. According to Army officials, the seller was charged with drug possession and use in the summer of 2006. He was demoted and placed in a supply clerk position in charge of MRE inventories while awaiting discharge from the military, which gave him the opportunity to steal MREs and sell them over eBay. Army CID linked the seller to a series of unsolved larcenies on base. The seller was sentenced to over 3 years in prison.

[DangerousDave]

I often hit the dumpster at the drop zone near Ft. Lee. Across the way is the Fed. Medium security pen. Those riggers like jumping at 1500 instead of 2000. Always fun to watch.

[MCIera]

Given the Register's reputation for sensationalism, I'm more than a little skeptical to anything that they post, regardless of the subject matter.

[kman]

I understand being initially skeptical of any new Register articles, but compare it to this article in The Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03097.html

The Washington Post doesn't even link to the GAO report and is fairly skimpy on details. Sure, The Register's article includes a lot of editorial content, but at least I found it more informative.

[Dekard]

They also had this quote from the GAO report:

During our investigation, we purchased numerous cases of MREs from eBay and Craigslist sellers. The sellers were mostly civilians. Three examples of our investigative work related to military MREs follows:

- One civilian seller in Louisiana* indicated that she has been selling military MREs on eBay for a number of years. She said that she acquires the MREs from service members assigned to a nearby military base, and that they arrive at her home unannounced. She added that most of the service members have 2 or 3 MRE cases but that others have had as many as 10 to 12 cases. She told us that she does not know any of the service members or where they get the MREs, but suggested they are “left over” from field exercises. She said that she usually pays service members about $20 per case in cash and that she can sell the cases on eBay for about $55 per case. We reviewed eBay records and learned that, from September 2006 through February 2008, she completed eBay auctions totaling about $55,000 for MREs. These MREs were likely stolen from the nearby military base. We referred this case to Army CID for criminal investigation.

* We have removed detailed information about the location of this seller because of an ongoing investigation by Army CID, which was based on our referral.

so i take this to mean our favorite cajun mre seller is out of business and likely will face a suspended sentence for selling stolen federal property and a fine equaling her ebay earnings.

i wonder if anyone has looked into suing the gubment over not allowing civilians to purchase mres for emergency preparations.

[kman]

so i take this to mean our favorite cajun mre seller is out of business and likely will face a suspended sentence for selling stolen federal property and a fine equaling her ebay earnings.

i wonder if anyone has looked into suing the gubment over not allowing civilians to purchase mres for emergency preparations.

I wouldn't assume she's out of business yet. They just said they referred the case to Army CID, who'll do the actual investigation.

If she's aware of this report, it's not showing...I've seen a number of cases of MREs for sale by her just this week on eBay. She's survived a CID investigation before a couple of years ago so we'll see how she does this time.

As for suing the government, I don't see where you'd have any case. You can't buy military MREs, sure, but you can buy civilian MREs that are almost exactly the same. Kind of like how you can't buy a military M-16/M-4 - but you can buy an AR-15 in any number of varieties (sans full-auto and short barrel).

[DangerousDave]

Exactly , PS, I just watched I Am Legend, special edition with alternate ending, purchased from Wally. Excellent plug for civilian M-4 carbines. Loved it.

[Treesuit]

I find this GAO report to be nothing more than scaring the public and trying to give the impression that the Gov't is doing everything in it's power to crack down on this MRE trade. Sounds to me like they got some small fish and are trying to hype it up to make them look good. WHAT BS, I say!
I'll give you one example on how the system keeps on rolling. I was at a local surplus store this weekend looking for some cheap buys where this guy (obviously an active duty guy) comes in with half a case of MRE's and a laundry bag full of MRE' parts. He kindof haggled with the owner over how much he could get for eveything, he got $20.00 in cash and was happy and walked away.
Now that got me thinking the owner bought them at $1.00 a meal but is going to sell them to the public at $5.00. So where is the problem? And why is the GAO wasting our taxpayer dollars trying to tell us something we already know?

[kman]

Treesuit, a couple of things come to mind from this report...

First, it seems like the gist of the report was that bad guys could buy US military technology pretty easily on eBay and Craigslist. While you can argue (as The Register did in their article) that many of the parts weren't exactly sensitive or even useful to bad guys, I think the GAO made its point that they're watching auctions for stuff like this. Maybe they're constantly monitoring auctions or maybe they're just doing it every two years when it's time to sit in front of another Congressional review. But either way, they just seemed to find anything military and lumped it into the same report. I don't see where MREs should be in the same category as F-16 parts...but that's just me.

Second, I don't think it's such a bad thing that they do the occasional crack down on illegal MRE sales. Let's be straight...I put together this site so I'm obviously a fan of MREs and would love to see them available everywhere to the general public. Some MREs are surplused legitimately and some make it to market from soldiers like you described. Unfortunately, there are also some out there that aren't obtained properly. If someone is selling $50,000 worth of MREs on eBay, that's worth a look to make sure it's on the up and up. But the one or two case deals? I don't know about that.