Warning of sale British MOD items

[norge]

sorry but i cant realy bring a copy of it,regulations.

[wats6831]

At the moment im working for the Royal Marines and the Royal Navy and we gott issued flyers with this info from the Top...

Are they for sale?

LOL. Can i get some in bulk? I will put them up for sale

[sdrozza]

sorry but i cant realy bring a copy of it,regulations.

Never mind! Good job sticking to your regulations. Just wanted to make sure I was sticking to the law!

[cavguy]

Thanks for the heads up Norge!

[Synthpeter]

(Note: This is not aimed at norge for warning us, but to "the military guys that try to stop this")

Hmm... Is it a law because the box says so?
I googled a bit and... ended up back here on this forum

This thread popped up.
viewtopic.php?t=4130#p31314

I can't really speak to the actual legalities in the UK (or here in the US for that matter, since IANAL), but it sounds like things in the UK are similar to over here. As for eBay, they've been asked to stop selling MREs and other rations and eBay is happy to comply - as long as they can be shown a law, not just an internal military regulation - that says they can't be sold. So far, there haven't been any civilian laws that actually ban the sale of these rations.

And this is exactly what I was wondering about. Now this was a few years ago, but has there actually been any change?
Is there a law that says "If it's printed on a box, it's the law" or is there a law that says something like "Use of military equipment without authorization is prohibited and punishable by law"... Used boots?.. old backpacks... ? I mean... They gotta be a bit more specific.
In any case, I would suspect the biggest trouble is for the "supplier" that actually gets them out from the military and sells them to the public. Selling/stealing military equipment is one thing.

Other info on this very site:
http://www.mreinfo.com/mres/us-govt-vs-ebay-auctions/

Finally, some more googling reveals a questions regarding MREs for sale on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/forum/-/TxZHM0I1 ... B005I5ML36
with the last reply:

There are no civilian laws on the books that prohibit the resale of MREs on the commercial market. The UCMJ prohibits military personnel from selling their issued rations for profit, but it does not cover the sale on civilian markets, which is why Amazon allows the trade of the product on it's market place.
Roy answered on December 31, 2016

I know, we were talking about UK rations, but again, I believe it's for the actual military personnel sourcing rations to the public that are the intended (or even the only possible) target for these messages.
As a civilian buyer, that's not really my concern.
I need a "According to law blabla paragraph blah section blabla". Scare tactics and "because we say so" doesn't work.

I guess the best they can hit you with would be "handling of stolen goods"...

Are there no lawyers on this forum?

[wats6831]

A. It's not stolen property. "not for resale" does not = stolen.

B. They would have to prove knowledge and intent. Meaning, that they would have to prove you knew they were stolen, and you intended to profit from said theft.

I agree that it's an issue of an internal regulation that is needed to prevent military personnel from profiting by selling their issued equipment. SOP really.

[housil]

B. They would have to prove knowledge and intent. Meaning, that they would have to prove you knew they were stolen, and you intended to profit from said theft.

e.g. in German law - not knowing doesn´t helps you. Even if you are a buyer that buys it with "good intentions" from a guy you believe he is a regular, legal seller. If later on they figure out, the items were stolen the bona fide buyer also gets charged for fencing.

As this rations are paid from tax payers money and distributed to the soldiers, I also think they want to avoid somebody sales them (fell off a truck store) to make some extra money.

[Synthpeter]

A. It's not stolen property. "not for resale" does not = stolen.

No not the selling in itself, but the actual act of removing an item from military ownership (and then selling it, throwing it into a shredder or sending it to the moon or whatever) without permission I guess could be considered a kind of theft or similar, right? Like selling your own fatigues or any other equipment (the platoon tent), then saying you lost it or it got stolen or something. It could be classified as some kind or fraudulent activity at least. In this case it just happens to be rations.
But yeah, it's the person doing the first "step" in the chain that commits the "stealing" then. The actual sale would probably not be illegal, but:

B. They would have to prove knowledge and intent. Meaning, that they would have to prove you knew they were stolen, and you intended to profit from said theft.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but in Sweden, strictly speaking it's the buyer's responsibility to make sure what he's about to buy isn't stolen by asking for receipts or if it's "beyond reasonable doubt" or similar.
An "I didn't know it was stolen" won't automatically free you of any suspicions, in particular with that print on the box giving you a good hint that you might need to make sure it's legal.
Of course it doesn't automatically mean you'll always be hung for it, but I think the Swedish law was changed to get to people who are aware they were buying stolen goods but try to play the ignorance-card when caught.

I agree that it's an issue of an internal regulation that is needed to prevent military personnel from profiting by selling their issued equipment. SOP really.

Yeah that's what I think as well.

[housil]

Not to get too far offtopic with the this thread but

I don't know how it works in other countries, but in Sweden, strictly speaking it's the buyer's responsibility to make sure what he's about to buy isn't stolen by asking for receipts or if it's "beyond reasonable doubt" or similar.

Over here in Germany, if it´s way too cheap (e.g from ebay) than the regular price in a store, the buyer must assume it may be stolen and will be illegal to buy.
Same if you buy something from a flea market or yard sale - if it´s unbelievable cheap - it´s probably stolen...


So now we are at rations. We know how much to Government pays for a case - let´s guess $150. Getting a case for just $80 (or less) can´t be legal due common sense.

[Garron]

I doubt MOD would go international. They have plenty of sellers to watch in the UK.

I'm British and I have seen MAAAAAAAANY sellers of rations on ebay.co.uk, but maybe the MOD is starting to look out now?

Means nothing mate, you could buy BRAND NEW OSPREY armour covers on ebay when the lads in Afghan and Iraq couldn't get them, same as the Mark 7 Helmets and BOWMAN radios, just because its on ebay doesn't mean anything. If the seller is from a garrison town (Catterick, Hereford, Colchester) chances are is probably dodgy unless its a actual surplus store shop.

I told you soliders have been arrested for selling kit a few months ago,

Re: Are British ORPs legal to purchase or sell in the UK?
Depends on their source, one released through surplus yes, I can get them at a local surplus shop. Ones off the back of a lorry no, quite a few squddies have been done for selling kit and I did hear when the new packs came out of investigations.

Here is a load of links dating back to 2012 showing it
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/719561 ... terrorists
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 87501.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sters.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-25741146