Good old days...

[housil]

For some reason, I did a (religious) lent 25 years ago with no eating for 40 days - like Jesus did in the desert. I was a construction worker and all weight I lost in this 40 days with NO eating was 3 lbs (1.5kg).

Yes,empty calories are basically from sugar...

What do you mean with "empty calories"?
There are mono-, di- and polysaccharides. Sugar is a "polysaccharide" and the body cut it´s down until it´s a monosaccharid, no matter what kind of it was before (sugar, milk sugar, fruit sugar etc.)

There is no way You can burn all the sugar no matter how active You are or not without harming your liver

Why do you think it harms the liver?
The body "stores" all that, now monosaccharide, in your system as blood sugar, in your muscles and at least in your liver as "glycogen". If you still intake, your body turns that "sugar" into "fat" and makes your belly and hips grow

[rationtin440]

Well guys, to be honest I never really understood the empty calories theory myself; in fact I thought it was just something that the senior NCOs and warrant officers at the battalion aid station/souped up M-577, whatever we had, would tell us to discourage the troops from eating too much of what we called "pogey bait." (a fairly weird term, but was used to describe the cookie bars and other snack stuff, commercial and MRE, brought to the field by troops, that provided a quick sugar rush but that was about it, there were no useful proteins, etc.). I will be the first one to admit I should have paid more attention in the nutrition education portions of my medic training, but we do tend to forget stuff over the years. Please forgive my ramble here housil, but I'm curious if the Bundeswehr has or had a program for the medics that went to the field with the troops to teach the troops about proper nutrition. Some of our guys insisted that all they needed was coffee, cocoa, high carb stuff and they could last the whole weekend.

[noderaser]

I always understood "empty calories" to mean foods that had lots of calories but little other nutritional value.

http://www.choosemyplate.gov/weight-man ... ories.html

[Woodland]

Yes,empty calories are basically from sugar...

What do you mean with "empty calories"?
There are mono-, di- and polysaccharides. Sugar is a "polysaccharide" and the body cut it´s down until it´s a monosaccharid, no matter what kind of it was before (sugar, milk sugar, fruit sugar etc.)

There is no way You can burn all the sugar no matter how active You are or not without harming your liver

Why do you think it harms the liver?
The body "stores" all that, now monosaccharide, in your system as blood sugar, in your muscles and at least in your liver as "glycogen". If you still intake, your body turns that "sugar" into "fat" and makes your belly and hips grow [/quote]


Empty calories are "just" calories without nutritional value.The body can only use a limited amount of sugar at once and the rest becomes body fat.But "burning" body fat to get energy is the last resort for the body.
For soldiers dextrose or maltodextrine may be good if they have no time to eat in combat but after then blood sugar level drops even lower then before...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... cohol.aspx

Since all fructose gets shuttled to your liver, and, if you eat a typical Western-style diet, you consume high amounts of it, fructose ends up taxing and damaging your liver in the same way alcohol and other toxins do. In fact, fructose is virtually identical to alcohol with regards to the metabolic havoc it wreaks. According to Dr. Lustig, fructose is a "chronic, dose-dependent liver toxin." And just like alcohol, fructose is metabolized directly into fat—not cellular energy, like glucose. So eating fructose is really like eating fat—it just gets stored in your fat cells, which leads to mitochondrial malfunction.

While the above statement is debated I think it's true.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112406.htm

http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/who-reduc ... ar-intake/

Too much sugar is bad for your health.Obesity,diabetes or liver problems...makes no difference.

[housil]

I always understood "empty calories" to mean foods that had lots of calories but little other nutritional value.

Ahhhhhh.... Thx for this

[rationtin440]

Thanks for clearing that up guys! I can't believe how much I forgot from what I learned at Fort Sam Houston; but I still recall going to the field and having to treat soldiers who insisted on bringing coca-cola and other empty calories to the field on a summer day and drinking a couple cans with their MRE or MCI and we all know what that can lead to. Even in the wintertime with several inches of snow on the ground and temps hovering around 0, we still treated just really stupid issues involving the empty calories that guys would consume to stay warm, stay awake, whatever. Our superiors quickly found that about the only way to deal with it was to have a "pogey-bait shakedown" before we left the unit for the field. This basically involved checking the unit vehicles and field gear of everyone to make sure they did not have a case of soda or a ton of chocolate bars stashed away------or empty canteens! It got pretty old for a bunch of alleged adults to have to be inspected like kids because they knew everything. My apologies to everyone, this should be under off-topic but I tend to get carried away, please excuse my wandering and reminiscing.

[noderaser]

It got pretty old for a bunch of alleged adults to have to be inspected like kids because they knew everything.

One thing I learned quickly about the military, after going in as an adult who earned his own way and lived by himself for 7 years prior, is that everything is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. Mommy isn't there to help you make good choices, so we have to drill it into everyone, even if you're the only moron in your squad who can't handle "real" life. Being proactive and helping your fellow troops out will help, but every now and then someone (maybe even in another unit) will do something stupid enough that you'll get stiffed for it as well.

[Norton]

One more interesting story.I don't remember where I read that during WW2 rangers operating behind enemy lines (in Asia) living mostly on K rats would loose incredible amount of their body weight.They got so much tired of K rats that weeks (or months) later when they saw K rats some of them vomited from the sight.
I don't know the source but this story impressed me very much.

Woodlands
Interesting point about K ration use.

Enjoy this subject as many American WW 2 veterans will speak about K rations for rest of their lives

In the 1980's I worked with a WW 2 vet who had served with the U.S. 88th Div in Northern Italy.
He told me when he first arrived in the combat zone of Northern Italy. Their first task was to help clean up a wrecked U.S. Army supply railroad train. Their were cases and cases of K rations spilled on the siding. Them being Green troops scooped them up.
The veteran troops laughed that they would be sorry. Their officers told them take as many as you can carry and any other load on our trucks. As it turned out he said they went on the line in the mountains. Then lived on the K Rations for three weeks straight. No C Rations, almost no hot meals. Latter he said the cooks began making hot meals from K rations and other canned quartermaster items mixed together in the form of hot soup. He said as it was winter anything hot was welcome.

Second story is I worked with a Man from the 97th Div in the 1980's. They served in France 1944/45
He told me one older soldier had been a cook at a pre-war lumber camp. This man would combine C rations and make hot meals in the field.
The same story as with the 88th, the hot soup stew or hot canned fruit was welcome in winter. He said it was cooked in makeshift stoves and brought to the line in Murmite cans..
He said this older soldier told them, if I have time to make a decent fire and carry the murmite can to the line. We will always have at least something hot for supper. They both said they hated eating K rations for more than a few days.

They also both out the Germans and Italians loved U.S. K and C rations. I asked the guy from the 88th about German Rations
He said ' you rarely saw any captured German soldiers with rations on him"

[housil]

He said ' you rarely saw any captured German soldiers with rations on him"

There were two reason for this.

The main reason was, "we" always had a field kitchen trailer (Gulaschkanone) + field bakery with every unit and they were setup at every break to feed the troops.
http://www.dererstezug.com/IronRation.htm

The second reason is, there wasn´t a really "individual ration" as you know it from the US. We had an "iron ration", but that was actually an emergency ration for the infantry.
Bread, hard tack, (canned) sausage etc. was given out and carried in the mess kit.

There is a third reason, this late in war, "we" were short in supply so the troops lend it from the locals (farmer) and promised, to give it back. We pay back - even until today...

[RockyRaab]

I read a story by a GI making the push to the Rhine, and when he was finally wounded and taken back to a hospital in England, the doctors were aghast at his condition. He had been eating nothing but K-rats for something like 40 days, and he was suffering from all kinds of nutrition deficiencies. This despite the fact that the official claim about K-rats was that contained a fully balanced diet. Bull chips, as most GIs would tell you. I never had to eat a K, fortunately. C-rats were sorry enough that we pounced on any LRRP ration we could get in 'Nam. MREs hadn't been invented yet.

Housil, from what I have read, conditions for the German soldier were horrid towards the end. No fuel, no ammo, no food, no replacement uniform items, no anything. It's very, very true that wars aren't won or lost with tactics, but logistics.