CFP-90 pack?

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Treesuit
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by Treesuit » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:17 pm

Haven't heard back from the repair shop yet, something tells me I won't ever hear back from them considering they have a business to run and aren't in the business of giving out their methods, but I'll keep an eye out anyways.

The only way I could think of fixing that by one's self would be using a stitching awl or sailmaker's palm and adding additional stitching using #69 bonded nylon thread to further reinforce the existing seams where trouble is known to occur. I'm no tailor but I don't think it's possible to repair a seam using a sewing machine once it's been sewn together such as in a pack.
FDSman, I doubt you will hear back from them they have a large business to run and may not care what a single customer thinks. I might have a solution. Contact a local REI outlet in your area or another civilian pack retailer and ask them who they use for repairs. I live close to Seattle so contacting REI for their repair people was easy. Or try "googling" TACTICAL TAILOR out of Tacoma, WA. They repair, make, sell all kind of packs an such especially military. Call them and see what they can do for you. Either way your going to have to pay for the repairs. If you go with TACTICAL TAILOR they can do the job right the first time and professionally. Give them a try.

Sometimes its very hard to repair a seam inside a pack. You may have to take apart the pack, repair the seam and then sew the rest up. Most cobbler shops and large repair facilities have sewing machines especially for jobs like that, so its not uncommon.

Are these reports of seam rips and such from the army trials? Because in all honestly, I doubt any of us would use our gear that hard to cause something like that. From what I know about equipment trials, they test them to their absolute limit, far beyond what anyone would do to their gear who has respect for it.

I've got no idea what the politics are behind that either, considering it got scrapped for MOLLE and SDS being the main contractor, something tells me a bit of rigging occurred.
Most of the reports I read, mind you posts, were of former military people talking about when they had the pack or somebody else had the pack from long ago. They all commented on how it functioned, what ripped, and what didn't work becuase of something. The consensus is that most of the problems happened with the rucksacks when they were in cirrulation going through a trial phase i.e. 1986-1988 or 1990-91. Mind you prototypes are tested to their absolute limit, then sent back, evalulated, then first run production models hit the supply system. You have to remember an Infantryman, Airborne, RANGER, SF, guy is going to try their best to trash that pack he is given just cause of the mission or work that he does. Yes, some people take better care of their equipment but most do not, especially some of the younger kids. Also given that the DoD mass produces gear its not like if something blows out, you can just get a new one fron supply. That is for active duty folks, the reserves and national guard don't go through gear quite as quickly.

Another point that I read in the above hyperlink that you supplied earlier was that of the two contrators in 1990-91, the contractor in Puerto Rico had the better packs than the one is South Dakota. Somebody mentioned on that forum that the SD firm had used non-mil spec thread and cordura nylon in the stitching which caused most of their packs to fall apart leading to more problems. They also were accused of cutting corners on the packs. So if you cut corners..sure your going to have problems.

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fdsman
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by fdsman » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:46 am

Treesuit wrote:
Haven't heard back from the repair shop yet, something tells me I won't ever hear back from them considering they have a business to run and aren't in the business of giving out their methods, but I'll keep an eye out anyways.

The only way I could think of fixing that by one's self would be using a stitching awl or sailmaker's palm and adding additional stitching using #69 bonded nylon thread to further reinforce the existing seams where trouble is known to occur. I'm no tailor but I don't think it's possible to repair a seam using a sewing machine once it's been sewn together such as in a pack.
FDSman, I doubt you will hear back from them they have a large business to run and may not care what a single customer thinks. I might have a solution. Contact a local REI outlet in your area or another civilian pack retailer and ask them who they use for repairs. I live close to Seattle so contacting REI for their repair people was easy. Or try "goggling" TACTICAL TAILOR out of Tacoma, WA. They repair, make, sell all kind of packs an such especially military. Call them and see what they can do for you. Either way your going to have to pay for the repairs. If you go with TACTICAL TAILOR they can do the job right the first time and professionally. Give them a try.

Sometimes its very hard to repair a seam inside a pack. You may have to take apart the pack, repair the seam and then sew the rest up. Most cobbler shops and large repair facilities have sewing machines especially for jobs like that, so its not uncommon.

Are these reports of seam rips and such from the army trials? Because in all honestly, I doubt any of us would use our gear that hard to cause something like that. From what I know about equipment trials, they test them to their absolute limit, far beyond what anyone would do to their gear who has respect for it.

I've got no idea what the politics are behind that either, considering it got scrapped for MOLLE and SDS being the main contractor, something tells me a bit of rigging occurred.
Most of the reports I read, mind you posts, were of former military people talking about when they had the pack or somebody else had the pack from long ago. They all commented on how it functioned, what ripped, and what didn't work because of something. The consensus is that most of the problems happened with the rucksacks when they were in circulation going through a trial phase i.e. 1986-1988 or 1990-91. Mind you prototypes are tested to their absolute limit, then sent back, evaluated, then first run production models hit the supply system. You have to remember an Infantryman, Airborne, RANGER, SF, guy is going to try their best to trash that pack he is given just cause of the mission or work that he does. Yes, some people take better care of their equipment but most do not, especially some of the younger kids. Also given that the DoD mass produces gear its not like if something blows out, you can just get a new one from supply. That is for active duty folks, the reserves and national guard don't go through gear quite as quickly.

Another point that I read in the above hyperlink that you supplied earlier was that of the two contractors in 1990-91, the contractor in Puerto Rico had the better packs than the one is South Dakota. Somebody mentioned on that forum that the SD firm had used non-mil spec thread and cordura nylon in the stitching which caused most of their packs to fall apart leading to more problems. They also were accused of cutting corners on the packs. So if you cut corners..sure your going to have problems.
the South Dakota firm wouldn't happen to be Specialty Defense Systems would it? That's who made the pack I have on the way.

I also snagged another pretty well used CFP-90 on ebay for 40 bucks. Had US markings but they were really faded. Remains to be seen who manufactured it.
-73

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Treesuit
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by Treesuit » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:15 pm

FDSman,

I doubt the SD firm is SDS. SDS used to be Special Plastic Systems and I thought they might have been out of PA. I was curious and checked all of my MOLLE gear than I have been issued, acquired or bought and none of my gear says where SDS is made out of. Normally, you see the manufacturer and can track down where they are just from a "google" search. Same thing with the production makers back then.

What deepens this mystery is that the CFP-90 production ceased in 1999 but yet I still see packs on ebay that were made in 2004 or 07 and then there's that odd request for CFP-90 packs in 2008. Plus all the packs I see on ebay are being sold for over a $100.00 without shipping, if you getting your for $40,00 you must be getting a knock off.

If you get that second pack, check the manufacturing tag and see who made it. I noticed one seller on ebay last night that has a brand new, still in the plastic bag, CFP-90 pack from 2007 and made by DJ manufacturing. That was one of the original producers making those packs back in 1990-91, it even menioned the correct NSN on it. So I'm curious as to find out what becomes of this. Come to think of it, some of those newer packs are a good bargain but I can't justify spending the money on one just yet.

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fdsman
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by fdsman » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:14 pm

Treesuit wrote:FDSman,

I doubt the SD firm is SDS. SDS used to be Special Plastic Systems and I thought they might have been out of PA. I was curious and checked all of my MOLLE gear than I have been issued, acquired or bought and none of my gear says where SDS is made out of. Normally, you see the manufacturer and can track down where they are just from a "google" search. Same thing with the production makers back then.

What deepens this mystery is that the CFP-90 production ceased in 1999 but yet I still see packs on ebay that were made in 2004 or 07 and then there's that odd request for CFP-90 packs in 2008. Plus all the packs I see on ebay are being sold for over a $100.00 without shipping, if you getting your for $40,00 you must be getting a knock off.

If you get that second pack, check the manufacturing tag and see who made it. I noticed one seller on ebay last night that has a brand new, still in the plastic bag, CFP-90 pack from 2007 and made by DJ manufacturing. That was one of the original producers making those packs back in 1990-91, it even menioned the correct NSN on it. So I'm curious as to find out what becomes of this. Come to think of it, some of those newer packs are a good bargain but I can't justify spending the money on one just yet.
Honestly I doubt it's a knock off. Reason being is any of the Korean made copies go for 130-150 new for some odd reason. That US militaria forum norge posted on stated that all the copies will be void of any US markings, and the pack I'm buying is very used, but you can make out US marked on the green bottom of the main pack.

Here are the pictures from the auction:

Image

Image

Image
-73

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Treesuit
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by Treesuit » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:59 am

FDSman,

Hey those photos you posted, they only came out as half shots. Can you re-post them? Also I see where the US is on one of the photos so if that is what your getting then "yeah", it's genuine. Not to mention if that one photo of the broken "ducks foot" is exactly that, WOW! that's going to be tough to repair.

Second, I found an older MOLLE magazine pouch dated 1997 and guess what it said "Specialty Defense Systems a division of Specialty Plastics Products of PA, INC. I was surprised that MOLLE might have been released earlier but now we know the SDS existed before 2001. Not only that but the two were under the same company. Still doubt that SDS had inferior packs or anything sub standard even back then.

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housil
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by housil » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:15 am

Treesuit wrote: Hey those photos you posted, they only came out as half shots.
Can you make your browsers window more wide?
Image
So you can see the whole pictures.

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Treesuit
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by Treesuit » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:57 pm

Housil,

Yeah, I have my browser screen on full view but the photos still come out on 1/2 or 2/3 of the picture. I kind of get what FDSman is posting or re-posting. Thanks :mrgreen:

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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by housil » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:27 pm

Treesuit wrote:Housil,

Yeah, I have my browser screen on full view but the photos still come out on 1/2 or 2/3 of the picture.
If do you set it from 100% to e.g. 50%, you can see them also - just smaler.

I always have to deal in forums with that half pictures... :cry:

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Treesuit
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by Treesuit » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:39 pm

I found this over at Ebay, not sure if this a prototype or what.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ERDL-pattern-Ve ... 2781553%26

There is another one though I'm not sure if that was a prototype but it looks like a civilian pattern that might have been used before the CFP-90 or maybe was used in the making of the first pattern one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190775880448?ss ... 1438.l2649

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fdsman
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Re: CFP-90 pack?

Post by fdsman » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:44 am

Treesuit wrote:I found this over at Ebay, not sure if this a prototype or what.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ERDL-pattern-Ve ... 2781553%26

There is another one though I'm not sure if that was a prototype but it looks like a civilian pattern that might have been used before the CFP-90 or maybe was used in the making of the first pattern one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190775880448?ss ... 1438.l2649
From what I remember from that thread, the CFP-90 was based off of the Vector packs. I remember reading something about Vector packs being sold only to military, and aren't available on the civilian market. Not sure which military this would be, but I don't think it's US.

Good reviews though, everyone says pick it up if you find one.

As for the broken ducks foot on the pack, I'll have to see it when I get it. So far all I can tell is the screws may be missing, but I'll compare the two packs once I receive them.

Even in broken condition though, I think I can probably re-sell that pack for probably double what I paid, depending on who manufactured it of course. :wink:
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