September 29, 2008 Market Crash

[Garron]

Sorry Stef I should have worded that better, I should have said Iraq, please accept my applogies. I've edited it.

I am aware of the EU soldiers serving in Afganistan and with out them it would make the whole process so much harder.

Gaz

[aquarius]

It is extremely hard to dig a large pit and dump it in.. without being noticed!
UN supervisors flew about all over Iraq with a helicopter especially adapted with a ground radar, and found nothing.
Sadam H. was indeed one of the worst bad guys this world has ever seen. He can be compared to a lot of other dictators who were just as bad, but were so lucky not having oil in their soil. And so were not invaded.
SH used chemical weapons in Halapja and maybe in other places as well. He had better been using Agent Orange, because that's sort of legal?

I was also supporting the Iraq war in the beginning. However, knowing what I know now, has changed my opinion.
Why don't we ask the Iraqees what they think of it? It's an easy question: Is your life better before of after the war/occupation? We're now 5 years later, so this would be a valid question.

Now I'll end the discussion on my part. I was trying to get people to be critical at what others, who have unknown agenda's, want you to believe. And trust me, you're being lied upon by every decision maker. 'Power corrupts'.

[jfko6]

quote="aquarius

I am not against killing terrorists. However when that is the only option one can think of, one will lose.
BTW, Scud missiles are not WMD's! They are tactical weapons. And they were fired AFTER the attack on Iraq had begun. Launching Scud's against Israel was not the reason why Iraq was attacked!!
Let it be clear: there were no WMD's and probably have never been in Iraq. Of course there were terrorists in Iraq before the 2nd Gulf War, but they were also in Spain, France, Israel etc, and still are. That should be no reason to attack a country, especially when these terrorist has no intent of attaking the US. So, the presence of some terrorist (who at that time had NO connections whit El Quaida) should not have been the reason to attack.
Your president and his team lied to the world. Even Collin Powell has admitted this fact. The attack and occupying of Iraq is based on lies and false accusations.
(Oh, and I am not a supporter of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.)

What are terrorists anyway? People attacking the soldiers that occupy their nation?
When in WW2 German soldiers occupied the Netherlands there was some resistance. Now and then German soldiers got shot to dead or were attacked otherwise, and in return the Germans killed some citizens. The Germans regarded the attackers as terrorists. We regard our resisance fighters as heroes. Well, the Germans lost the war, so now the fighters are heroes.
Same goes for Iraq. Attacking the occupying soldiers can be seen as a act of terror or as an act of heroism. Depends on which side your on, and who will 'win' in the end.

It should be pretty scaring when the president of the strongest military, economical and democratic country in the world, argues that 'you are either with us, or against us'. With that sentence he ended all debate, all discussions. There was no more space for alternatives. From then on every other thought could be (and has been) explained as 'against us'.
If you study history, you will see where fascisme begins. Right here.
Luckily Bush is out of the office in a short time. My guess is that the new guy in town will be wiser and more honest. Even is McCain is going to win, I think it will be a large improvement.

It is extremely hard to dig a large pit and dump it in.. without being noticed!
UN supervisors flew about all over Iraq with a helicopter especially adapted with a ground radar, and found nothing.
Sadam H. was indeed one of the worst bad guys this world has ever seen. He can be compared to a lot of other dictators who were just as bad, but were so lucky not having oil in their soil. And so were not invaded.
SH used chemical weapons in Halapja and maybe in other places as well. He had better been using Agent Orange, because that's sort of legal?

I was also supporting the Iraq war in the beginning. However, knowing what I know now, has changed my opinion.
Why don't we ask the Iraqees what they think of it? It's an easy question: Is your life better before of after the war/occupation? We're now 5 years later, so this would be a valid question.

Now I'll end the discussion on my part. I was trying to get people to be critical at what others, who have unknown agenda's, want you to believe. And trust me, you're being lied upon by every decision maker. 'Power corrupts'.

You can't seem to accept the fact of all the good that is being done in Iraq. You make up stories like a child. In Iraq, new schools are being built and children being fed and the region is becoming more stable. I've shown that well enough around these boards. You just ignore it. You keep contradicting yourself with what you say and draw up arguments trying to make a terrorist who blow themselves up to bits as freedom fighters look good. You told enough lies yourself. Quite frankly nobody is believing you. You're ready to bail because you can't support your arguments with reasonable facts which quite frankly is your problem. And yeah you are either with us or your with the terrorists. You seem to be on the side of the terrorists. Freedom Fighters: Please.

[aquarius]

Okay, just one post more, for fun only.
What a tragedy to lose 4100 soldiers and countless civilian lives to build some schools, make some water wells, and elect a puppet goverment!
What would it have been nice if we had accomplished those things without all the destroying, killing and maiming.
Your neocon government has lied and cheated upon you and the rest of the world. It has created a financial black hole never seen before in the world. All because of Bush and his friends the US is gliding into the gutter on all fronts, military, economically, and worst, mentally.
The US is becoming more and more financially dependant on countries like China, Russia and some Arabic states. They are not really the best friends of us!
The way Bush reacts and argues (you're either against or with us) is the way terrorists and dictators have reacted very long before he did!
The one thing we do learn from history, is that we don't learn a thing from it.

You should read the writing on the US walls. In many places on the internet people are talking about a revolution in the US. Phrases like 'lock & load and then let's march to Washington' are becoming more common. They are not only liberals but many republicans who write these things. People are so fed up with politics, and especially with neocon politics, that it is becoming frightening.
I admit, that my information now is only from the internet and that I don't speak with Americans in person. Therefor my point of view of what is happening in your country is posssibly distorted. Hopefully I am totally wrong on this subject.

You may accuse of having the wrong ideas, but not of a lying. There is not a single ly on my side. Everything I've stated can be read elsewhere. the numbers don't ly. I know it is one of the most difficult experiences in a man's life: To admit he has believed in the wrong ideas, the wrong people and that he has been cheated on with his eyes and ears wide open. I know how people react when they given all they had to a con man. Some never recover.
Bush is the con man. Who are you?

[bishopmarine]

okay i just spent about ten minutes typing a huge post it was lost and i am not doing it again so this is the short version. aquarius, i agree with a lot of what you say. i am disgusted with the recent actions of my country including and mainly the bailout on wall street. the war in iraq should not have been started we were lied to and have still not been told the truth about the reason for the invasion. it is time to get out. we are bleeding to death financially and iraq is a open wound. i am a patriot i love my country and support our troops i have done my part to serve our country. i would do so again if needed. i do not support the current administration, and i will not vote for john mccain.

[aquarius]

D@mn! I love your country too!
Ghee, I spent half of my life chasing bad guys of all sorts, but now it appears I myself am one of them! It's my guess jfko6 is certainly not one of those MRE-eating armchair commandoes, but one of those heroes who dedicated his life to society and is fighting injustice around the world. Respect.

But now have to ask kman to abolish my MRE account because I have been identified as a terrorist, or at least a friend of the terrorists.
kman surely does not support bad guys, so he has to do something. I can only make threads, that if I am suspended, I will destroy all my nice pic's of rations. That will be my final act of terror. Sorry, but I have to play it the hard way!

Just kidding!

[jfko6]

Okay, just one post more, for fun only.
What a tragedy to lose 4100 soldiers and countless civilian lives to build some schools, make some water wells, and elect a puppet goverment!
What would it have been nice if we had accomplished those things without all the destroying, killing and maiming.
Your neocon government has lied and cheated upon you and the rest of the world. It has created a financial black hole never seen before in the world. All because of Bush and his friends the US is gliding into the gutter on all fronts, military, economically, and worst, mentally.
The US is becoming more and more financially dependant on countries like China, Russia and some Arabic states. They are not really the best friends of us!
The way Bush reacts and argues (you're either against or with us) is the way terrorists and dictators have reacted very long before he did!
The one thing we do learn from history, is that we don't learn a thing from it.

You should read the writing on the US walls. In many places on the internet people are talking about a revolution in the US. Phrases like 'lock & load and then let's march to Washington' are becoming more common. They are not only liberals but many republicans who write these things. People are so fed up with politics, and especially with neocon politics, that it is becoming frightening.
I admit, that my information now is only from the internet and that I don't speak with Americans in person. Therefor my point of view of what is happening in your country is posssibly distorted. Hopefully I am totally wrong on this subject.

You may accuse of having the wrong ideas, but not of a lying. There is not a single ly on my side. Everything I've stated can be read elsewhere. the numbers don't ly. I know it is one of the most difficult experiences in a man's life: To admit he has believed in the wrong ideas, the wrong people and that he has been cheated on with his eyes and ears wide open. I know how people react when they given all they had to a con man. Some never recover.
Bush is the con man. Who are you?

Previous Post by Aquarius
Let it be clear: there were no WMD's and probably have never been in Iraq.

So often has the WMD argument been used and many times that has been the only sticking point against the invasion of Iraq. But at the same time everybody agrees that Saddam was a bad guy. So often the media ignores what is really going on in Iraq and I wonder how the media would react if the world suddenly found those weapons. And if they did, after all this was a major argument for going to Iraq, Would the President than be a Hero? A leader who stomped out aggressive tyranny wherever it reared its ugly head. Or, maybe there is some other reason people hate this President so much so they got every name for him in the book. So what about that -- what if they did find those weapons of mass destruction, those nerve and mustard agents that were used by Iraq to kill so many people. Would the media try to hide it? Or, would the delegates not mention a word of it in their debates. [Shift] Exit strategy. What if they were used on our Soldiers? What would people say than if reports came in of sarin and mustard gas used on American Soldiers killed them and neighboring countries. No WMD's so The President lied. Therefore we should not be in Iraq.

After all, the Saddam Regime was notorious for using sarin and mustard gas on its own people time and again. Forty thousand have been killed in their own country and Iran. An estimated Forty Thousand lives snuffed out. This estimate could actually be much higher. These reports were clear enough. And if all this happened than how could it be possible that no such agents could be found in Iraq. What than happened to them? Analysis: It appears than that the terrorists did a good job of hiding them. Or, did they.

Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Fox News
Fox a reputable news organization has recently reported on the number of WMD found to date. Fox known for its unbiased news reporting cites congressional sources in where these Weapons (both Sarin and Mustard agents) were uncovered.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

Declassified House Intelligence Report on WMD's found inside Iraq.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Ira ... sified.pdf

The media doesn't ban around "we did not find any WMD's in Iraq" argument anymore unless there some left-sided liberal because it has never been true. Many atrocities have been uncovered. Torture chambers and the good being done goes far beyond sewage treatment and utility works though that's not a bad thing.

If reports were coming back from the front which indicted the United States for War crimes, I would be the first to holler foul. But it is quite the opposite. After all, I have friends over there right now. And at least one who was wounded.

Too often people don't recognize that evil exists in this world to a great degree. The All War is Wrong argument from a liberal pacifist point of view around colleges and universities sounds good but that argument does not work. The Iraqi people are entitled to justice. And with justice comes peace. And that sure as heck is Biblical.

Unfortunately, most people including the Western Block European nation forget or overlook how many tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers shed blood for there freedoms. Once reminded there is no escaping that truth.

Paul Holton and Army interrogator author of Saving Babylon writes dramatically on all the good that is being done. He has this to say:

Iraqis went out of their way to express appreciation for the work of the Coalition. Iraqi freedom was bought at the supreme price --American soldiers' blood. The Iraqis know it. And they aren't afraid to acknowledge it. Saving Babylon is a glimpse into the history of Operation Iraqi Freedom that the American public needs to know.

In 1776, when the Declaration of Independence was first read in public and the Liberty Bell rang out in celebration, one witness said of that famous bell, "It rang as it meant something." Freedom still means something.

I am continually thankful for the opportunity I had to work side by side with the Iraqi people, watching them discover that freedom has enduring meaning.

See one Amazon.com reviewer of Saving Babylon: Weapons of Mass Smiles

Paul Holton, Saving Babylon

[aquarius]

"The US federal debt as of October 16, 2008 is now $10,331,139,000,845.
This $10.3 trillion debt excludes the federal government's unfunded liabilities. When these are added, the total obligations of the federal government are $110 trillion, or at least that's what they were estimated to be last May by Dallas Federal Reserve president Richard Fisher." - James Turk.

[dirtbag]

and this is somehow your business ?????

[aquarius]

GLOBAL recession that started in the US, due to its mega debts. That is a problem of the whole world. Everybody is involved. Even me (a part of my pension has already been vaporised).