Scenario time...

Reviews of Civilian MREs (Sure-Pak, aPack, etc.) as well as other civilian ready-to-eat food
LogDayFreshHots
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Scenario time...

Post by LogDayFreshHots » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:29 pm

Ive harped on the MRE some around here, possibly to the dismay of some. But in general I think anyone who has read my comments knows that I like the MRE but Im slow to change. So while I like the older MREs Im a little 'off' with the newer stuff. So Ive come up with a 'scenario' that Im sure has been discussed before but just in case it hasn't I'll present it here.

The hypathetical scenario is this. 'Something' has happened and a response has been authorized. One of the items you will need to acquire are rations. However, nothing can be traced back to (insert your country here). Thus along with everything else that must be sterile (unmarked) you need to put together your own combat rations.

You are not limited by size, weight, or quantity. We'll say that the 'response' requires mobility so therefore you'll be on the move using vehicles. But you will need to set-up temporary patrol bases which will require you to pack sufficient rations while out on patrol.

Here are the rules to determining what your creativity produces:

1) No MREs, MRE-components, 'Heater Meals', 'Heater-anything'. Nothing that is already assembled or has been broken down. This also includes all foreign combat and commercially-available meals. You have to pick all the individual components off the grocery store shelves to be included in each patrol meal and the group ration.

2) No 'Thats easy... I'll just contact housil, treesuit, kman, norge and the others at MREinfo.com to get some of these and some of those. Those guys will hook me up with yummy 'Kibble''. :wink: No... send it back. :x

3) You must put together both a group-type ration (stored on vehicles) as well as a patrol ration (you carry). The group-ration need only include the individual items and your ideas of a meal or meals since I haven't given the hypathetical unit a field strength. The patrol ration may be either a 24-hour type or you can break it down into three individual meals. The choice is yours. The group ration may include individual ingredient items so if fresh baked is desired as part of the meal, you can include it. And what 'operator' doesn't look manly holding a delicate fresh-baked cream-filled pastry after a long day of hunting Tier-1 scum? So if your group meal includes fresh bread or something else and you want to pack it, thats fine.

4) Nothing that requires ordering. By that I mean you don't have time get on the net, whip out plastic, select all kinds of wonderful morsels and then wait for delivery. This response requires you to pick it up, break it down into reasonably balanced meals, remove all traces of its origin, and pack it.

5) Your choices of supply are limited to local grocery stores; bulk food stores (Cosco; BJ's; Aldi's, etc.); discount stores (Dollar Tree, Dollar General, anybody's '$0.99' store, etc.). NO surplus/ disposal shops, camping/ hiking stores, and so forth. I'll also include 'basement' or 'house'... Ive some of the collections posted on here!

6) When you assemble your meals you can use 'wet' food, dehydrated/ freeze dried food, or a combination of both. You can go with bags, boxes, tins, or a little of each. Entirely up to you since you can't control how something is packaged at the store. Keep in mind that if you choose dehydrated/ freeze dried you will need to include water in your kits as there is no assurance water will be available in the field.

Lastly, I will respectfully retain 'go/ no-go' status on any items a member might wonder is permissable. If you want to go as far as assembling actual components into 'kits', weigh them to determine feasibility and post pics that will get you UBER points... actually there are no points but it would be interesting!

Any questions? Time starts now....
"FIND THE BASTARDS, THEN PILE ON" - Standing Order of Col. George S. Patton Jr., C.O. 11th ACR.

"We may find in the long run that tinned food is a deadlier weapon than the machine-gun" - George Orwell.

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Big_jo
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by Big_jo » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:42 am

It's an interesting scenario, but even if we were buying civilian foods then the packaging might be traceable back to the country of origin.

Be it the barcode, style of packaging, production stamps etc, there is a big likelihood it could be traced back to certain suppliers or retailers and traced back to somewhere.

But what the hell, I'll have a think and get back to you sometime :mrgreen:

LogDayFreshHots
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by LogDayFreshHots » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:12 pm

Big_jo wrote:It's an interesting scenario, but even if we were buying civilian foods then the packaging might be traceable back to the country of origin.

Be it the barcode, style of packaging, production stamps etc, there is a big likelihood it could be traced back to certain suppliers or retailers and traced back to somewhere.

But what the hell, I'll have a think and get back to you sometime :mrgreen:
Hey Big_Jo

I was shopping at a bulk food place and tossing a three-can pack of DAK hams into the cart when the notion started to hit me. I figured I could rough the exterior with sandpaper and then spray paint it. Same with the SPAM tins but just remove the labels. I also spotted Hormel canned ham and since they are still using a paper label its just a matter of tearing the label off and spraying it.

Repackaging is acceptable. Remember that in order to create the rations it will require breaking down bulk components. For example, if you had asked could you buy your own home-type vacuum-sealer, large containers of instant oatmeal, raisins, etc., mixed everything together and then portioned it out to create an instant breakfast of oatmeal with raisins... I would have said yes. Both the meal and the packaging is untraceable. This would allow you to buy lots of instant or nearly instant bagged side dishes that you could then combine to your liking and repackage. If you like sardines in the little tins then its usually just a matter of removing the paper overwrap or at least the paper label on the lid.

But Im glad you are willing to take the plunge. This is just a hypathetical to see how creative we can be when we can't simply get an MRE or its foreign equal. I guess the fact that I had watched a little 'Enemy at the Gates' the previous night probably had something to do with it. I mean, who around here knows how to make 'saw-dust' bread which the Ruskies survived on when they couldn't get flour? They really had to find creative ways to feed millions of troops when they were literally being starved to death. So thats probably why I thought 'no combat rations... no camp food... nothing.'

Besides, if others will take the plunge whose to say someone in charge of ration development won't come across this site - if they haven't already - and see something creative enough to try and implement it? I look forward to seeing what you come up with....
"FIND THE BASTARDS, THEN PILE ON" - Standing Order of Col. George S. Patton Jr., C.O. 11th ACR.

"We may find in the long run that tinned food is a deadlier weapon than the machine-gun" - George Orwell.

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Treesuit
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by Treesuit » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:36 pm

LongDayFreshHots,

Okay, I'm willing to take a stab at this as well. First of all I had to read this over and over again to make sure I'm understanding the parameters right. The only thing I see wrong with this is that even if we can't use MRE's or foreign counterparts, we can still use local sources (i.e. grocery stores, warehouse places, Etc) to procure supplies. Well, if we do use those sources everything in those stores from pasta to snacks to bottle water will have a bar code. And I do mean everything. A lot of barcodes are printed on everything from bottles to cans, so the idea of stripping/grinding the bars off is a great idea but time consuming. Seeing as how were in a crisis scenario. Trust me I worked in the grocery business for a few years, everything can be bar coded and traced back to something even in America and overseas.

So the idea of it can't be traced back to where ever is a factor we can't overcome or get by unless your living out in the sticks and you have fruits, veggies, wheat, cattle, water source, etc. That would be the only thing that would not be considered in this sceanario that would not fall into that constraint.

You may need to ease up a bit on the restrictions so we can go run with this. :mrgreen:

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Re: Scenario time...

Post by LogDayFreshHots » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:32 am

Treesuit,

I may have gone overboard. :roll: You make good points. As for using a crisis-type scenario I meant that response was necessary but as with all such operations (covert) they require a work-up and a plan. So in theory as those part of the response conduct the necessary training, others would acquire the supplies and make the necessary modifications. Thats why I mentioned to Big_Jo the use of a home seal-a-meal type set-up that would allow different meals to be made. Can't trace instant oatmeal if you made it yourself and as far as I recall the individual bags for those machines don't have any bar codes. As for something like water I'd use generic 3 or 5 gallon collapsible blivets with any identifying markings removed. I believe you when you mention retail grocer experience. No arguement there. But thats why I mentioned to Big_Jo about repackaging.

Considering this is theoretical.... lets just pretend. :wink:
"FIND THE BASTARDS, THEN PILE ON" - Standing Order of Col. George S. Patton Jr., C.O. 11th ACR.

"We may find in the long run that tinned food is a deadlier weapon than the machine-gun" - George Orwell.

Cracker
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by Cracker » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:36 am

When vehicle's are allowed, wet food:

1. A bag of thick Dutch meal soup (not a can) 750ml, heatable in a pan, can be eaten cold, can be heated with heaters.
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Available in pea soup, beefsoup, onion soup, chicken soup, mushroom soup, vegetable soup, mustardsoup etc etc.

2. Double portion of hartkeks (like in german rations).. hard biscuit like crackers, non sweet, non salt.
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3. Spread for the hartkeks, I'd prefer 3 little cans of liverpate, and 1 cup of cheesespread (dutch)
Image Image

4. Candy or snackmix (non chocolate, because of melting) think of skittles, hard candy, jelly beans, etc
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5. Meat product (Spam, prepacked beefburgers, canned ham, canned bacon, smoked sausage)
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6. Moist towelettes
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7. Toiletpaper (seems stupid, but very important)

Dutch TP
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Or Romanian TP
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8. Bar of dextrose tablets
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9. Drink powders: Instant coffee, Lemonade powder

10. Spices: Salt, sugar

and the most important of all:



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Maybe a slightly more compact type would do fine aswell.
Sure, someone may one day kill me with my own gun.
But they'll have to beat me to death with it because it's empty.

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Stef
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by Stef » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:42 am

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I'm sure I'd love those Dutch candies. :|
In principio erat spamum

LogDayFreshHots
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by LogDayFreshHots » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:56 pm

Cracker! Nice work! Everything is shelf stable. The soup can be repackaged so the commerical packaging won't give it away. The Zippo might be a bit much... like a tactical nuke when you strike it.

Im not much on candy these days and I can see why the American 'Skittles' were never any good to me. But for some reason the Skittles in your country look much more palatable.

Will PM with my address..... PLEASE SEND SKITTLE SAMPLE! :wink:
"FIND THE BASTARDS, THEN PILE ON" - Standing Order of Col. George S. Patton Jr., C.O. 11th ACR.

"We may find in the long run that tinned food is a deadlier weapon than the machine-gun" - George Orwell.

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Re: Scenario time...

Post by Cracker » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:36 am

You want the snackpack or the familypack?

The soup can simply be painted (if you dissolve the paint to recover the text, you also destroy the plastic bag..)

But I don't see why you want to be anonymus? I think if any foreign power that invades your country will still get the picture, even when it's totally inrecognizable. And on the otherhand, in the EU, many products simply state "made in the EU" (like in the US)..
Sure, someone may one day kill me with my own gun.
But they'll have to beat me to death with it because it's empty.

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

LogDayFreshHots
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Re: Scenario time...

Post by LogDayFreshHots » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:18 pm

Cracker wrote:You want the snackpack or the familypack?

The soup can simply be painted (if you dissolve the paint to recover the text, you also destroy the plastic bag..)

But I don't see why you want to be anonymus? I think if any foreign power that invades your country will still get the picture, even when it's totally inrecognizable. And on the otherhand, in the EU, many products simply state "made in the EU" (like in the US)..
Well the Skittles you show above looks like a snackpack to me. :wink: So drill some holes in a box, toss in some lettuce and carrots and put her in the mail! :lol:

Good question but my scenario wasn't one of being invaded but of crossing over into another country and possibly operating long-term in their backyard. Kind of in similar light to the British Long Range Desert Group. Except back then information didn't flow at the speed of light like it does today. Also take into consideration the American OSS and the British SOE supplying resistance forces behind German lines. Much of what they provided was either repacked with no traces of its origin or given false markings to create mistrust.

You are right about painting over some packaging (like paints tins) since an attempt to remove the paint will only smear and strip the original paint underneath.

Lastly, Im really happy you focused on the foods. Packaging is a side note. I probably didn't make it clear enough that what I wanted to see was menu/ meal creation that didn't involve assembling the favorite bits and piece from readily available military rations. So far... your stuff is looking pretty good! Hey don't forget to throw a bottle of water in that box when you ship her... uh, I mean - 'skittles'. :wink:
"FIND THE BASTARDS, THEN PILE ON" - Standing Order of Col. George S. Patton Jr., C.O. 11th ACR.

"We may find in the long run that tinned food is a deadlier weapon than the machine-gun" - George Orwell.

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