September 29, 2008 Market Crash

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Big Galloot
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Post by Big Galloot » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:55 pm

Dear ffk06 -

I have reread your post several times and I just can't make out what kind of point you were trying to make.

My problem may be that I am educated. When you get used to organized thought it is often difficult to break the habit.

Am I correct in assuming that your point is that the spilt blood of thousands of American soldiers in Iraq is somehow punishing Bin Laden?

Perhaps the Taliban feels slighted because we don't have enough soldiers left to provide meaningful support the Afghanistan government allowing them to have an easy time of it?

From where I sit, the Iraq war is George Bush's gift to the 9/11 conspirators.
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jfko6
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Service

Post by jfko6 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:14 pm

Big Galloot:

I can tell you never served in the military.

I have many friends over in Iraq sacrificing themselves for this great country. They even told me that they're willing to sacrifice themselves for this country.

I lived through nine-eleven and saw people die.

I know what evil is. I've seen it. There's more where that came from.

The rest of what you said. Not interested.

JFK

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bishopmarine
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Post by bishopmarine » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:15 am

everyone wants to close there eyes and pretend everyone in the world is civilized and there is no evil. the soldiers that have died in iraq and and afghanistan were volunteers. they gave there lives for their country. i would have done the same but fate did not go that way for me. for anyone to say that there are no terrorists in iraq is a bunch of bs. as liberal as our media is, they have even reported on this issue. for us to sit back like a bunch of pussies and let people try and destroy our country is foolish. there are some people who are afraid to fight for their country. some may love their country and be afraid to. some may be physically unable to. but some have a darker side a desire to see bad things happen. i am a patriot if needed i would go to iraq today and fight. i would do it in the hope that one day iraq can have some semblance of a civilized country. people can bash what i say all the want it dont really bother me. my actions in this world have been much more than just some anonymous posts on a website. my actions have shown the people around me how i feel and what faith can bring.
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jfko6
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God Bless America

Post by jfko6 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:28 am

For all the men and women over in IRAQ and Afghanistan making the supreme sacrifice. For all the countries that support Operation Enduring Freedom. God Bless. The nation stands behind you. You are doing what is right in the face of profound evil. May God be with you.
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aquarius
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Post by aquarius » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:02 pm

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with El Qaida. The 9/11 bastards came from everywhere but Iraq; they were not trained in, nor did they receive any money from Iraq. After the invasion of Iraq the argument of terrorism was made up by your government.
Iraq was invaded because of the WOMD that were supposed to be there. As everybody should know by now, that was a pure ly. A scam to put US power into the arabic oil world.

I once was a professionel soldier, willing to give my life to defend the freedom of my country and its neighbour countries. I served with some atomic weapons and I was very aware of the consequences when these things had to be employed. Now I am since 28 years in law enforcement. (And not just walking the streets in some small town, but litteraly chasing the bad guys around the globe.)
I know how it feels to put once life in the line of fire for the well being of others and to defend freedom. But I learned to be very critical of what people want me to believe. So I am not opposed to fighting terrorism, however only fighting will bring us nothing. It has to be a combination of strenght and caring - to put it simply. If it needs killing, it should be done. If it needs loving it also should be done. Yes, even taking care of the baddest people should be part of the war against terror. And it is very Christian as well.

The war in Afghanistan maybe has something to do with fighting terrorism. I don't know.
The Taliban ruled the country from about 1996 to 2001. They probably weren't very satisfied with EQ hiding in there Tora Bora mountains, but were unable to do something against it in there 5 years of ruling. As Afghanistan is a political extremely unstable country, it was easier to invade Afghanistan than Pakistan (where most of the bad guys hide).
Now the strongest military alliance in the world is trying to eliminate EQ and catch BL, but in 7 years still no succes! The talibs are stronger than they were 5 years ago. What a success...

Dying for ones country maybe okay, but dying for ones government sucks.
"if you don't read the newspaper, you are uniformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed". (Mark Twain)

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bl00k
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Re: Saddam

Post by bl00k » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:49 am

jfko6 wrote:Stef/bl00k:

When the US invaded IRAQ the first thing the Marines encountered upon resistance were terrorist training camps. Saddam supported those camps. They were filled with mercenaries from all over the region. Its actually amazing to me; Everyone knows that terrorism exists in the middle east all the way down to Afghanistan and beyond those borders. But terrorism exists everywhere but Iraq. Yeah Right.
I didn't say there were no terrorists in Iraq, i'm sure there are. Depending on your definition of terrorist, they are pretty much in every country. They are right here in the Netherlands, does that mean the US has to invade us? There are many more terrorists in the other countries of the Middle East, so the US should invade every country and go door to door killing everyone who is a terrorist? Who is a terrorist anyway? Can you tell them apart from 'normal' people by something? No you can't, they look exactly the same as everyone else, most of the time these so called terrorists live a normal life by day, and another by night, so to speak.

9/11 was committed by a bunch of arabs. They're all dead. They apparently came from a group called Al Qaeda, 'the base'. This group apparently had found home in Afghanistan under taliban rule. I can see why America would try and invade Afghanistan. You can't completely justify it with reason, the hijackers of 9/11 were all dead, after all. If you're holding Bin Laden responsible for the deaths of 9/11, you can also hold Bush responsible for American soldiers who died in the Middle East. But anyway, invading Afghanistan is 'alright'. Invading Iraq, however, didnt have anything to do with so called 'terrorism', which by the way is the most overstated threat in the history of the world. How much people died through terrorism in the Western world? It's about the lowest possible threat to the random person. I've never had ANY fear for terrorism, it's irrational. And to think you can actually solve this "terrorism" by invading countries is even less rational. You create more terrorists this way. America must know by now that you can't win a guerilla war by conventional means. You'd have to kill each and every person in the enitre middle east to be sure. And even then you won't be sure cause there's bound to rise some other guy up somewhere in the world who says "fuck america", and he'd have a valid reason, too.

This 'war on terrorism' can't be won through force. It's Bush's way of instilling fear in the American people to make them do what he wants. Terrorists are the boogeymen, America is under attack, America is in danger, and Bush needs more and more power to fix it. It's all based on irrational fear. Fear of terrorists, fear of Islam, fear of Iran, fear of the men with big black beards. America will stay in Iraq till someone in the US decides to get them back. Nothing will be won. Thousands of Americans will be dead, tens of thousands of Iraqis will be dead. Billions will have been spent. And the world will NOT be a safer place unless each and everyone in the middle east is dead.

To me, it's obvious why Bush and his buddies decided to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. It's partly about oil, partly about the dollar as the world currency, partly about money and partly about saying 'fuck you' to Russia and China. All in all, it's about maintaning America's superpower status. Those are more valid reasons for invading iraq than to fight terrorism.

I'm not saying anything bad about the soldiers. All my criticism goes to the Bush administration/government. The soldiers do their job, make huge sacrifices. For their country, sure. But not for Iraqi freedom. All praise must go to soldiers who try to win without fighting. All blame has to go to anyone who voted for Bush's proposals.

I hope this shit turns out for the better. America needs God's blessing now more than ever.

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jfko6
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Post by jfko6 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:53 pm

aquarius wrote:The war in Iraq has nothing to do with El Qaida. The 9/11 bastards came from everywhere but Iraq; they were not trained in, nor did they receive any money from Iraq. After the invasion of Iraq the argument of terrorism was made up by your government.
Iraq was invaded because of the WOMD that were supposed to be there. As everybody should know by now, that was a pure ly. A scam to put US power into the arabic oil world.

I once was a professionel soldier, willing to give my life to defend the freedom of my country and its neighbour countries. I served with some atomic weapons and I was very aware of the consequences when these things had to be employed. Now I am since 28 years in law enforcement. (And not just walking the streets in some small town, but litteraly chasing the bad guys around the globe.)
I know how it feels to put once life in the line of fire for the well being of others and to defend freedom. But I learned to be very critical of what people want me to believe. So I am not opposed to fighting terrorism, however only fighting will bring us nothing. It has to be a combination of strenght and caring - to put it simply. If it needs killing, it should be done. If it needs loving it also should be done. Yes, even taking care of the baddest people should be part of the war against terror. And it is very Christian as well.

The war in Afghanistan maybe has something to do with fighting terrorism. I don't know.
The Taliban ruled the country from about 1996 to 2001. They probably weren't very satisfied with EQ hiding in there Tora Bora mountains, but were unable to do something against it in there 5 years of ruling. As Afghanistan is a political extremely unstable country, it was easier to invade Afghanistan than Pakistan (where most of the bad guys hide).
Now the strongest military alliance in the world is trying to eliminate EQ and catch BL, but in 7 years still no succes! The talibs are stronger than they were 5 years ago. What a success...

Dying for ones country maybe okay, but dying for ones government sucks.
On par your argument sounds like a good one. You bill yourself as an international crime fighter but don't know that there is terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan. You seem to think that this problem can be solved by using the Gospel on the enemy. That simply does not work. The United States was in Iraq in the first Gulf War. There was terrorism than and Weapons of Mass destruction than considering all the scud missiles the USA took out of action. These same missiles were used on Israel.

Sorry but your argument is so lame and naive it does not proceed from a natural complimentary of a good understanding of history, the evil that is in this world and the price it takes to defeat it to the best of a nations ability.

The Palestinian organization aka PLO would have the world believe that they want a Palestinian State in Israel. Not so. A terrorists end is death. That's all he comes to, nothing more.

This nation will continue to fight, in the words of our President evil aggressors wherever they hide. In a popular speech to the nation we hear a thunderous cry, "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists."

Taliban gun down British aid worker
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aquarius
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Post by aquarius » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:38 am

I am not against killing terrorists. However when that is the only option one can think of, one will lose.
BTW, Scud missiles are not WMD's! They are tactical weapons. And they were fired AFTER the attack on Iraq had begun. Launching Scud's against Israel was not the reason why Iraq was attacked!!
Let it be clear: there were no WMD's and probably have never been in Iraq. Of course there were terrorists in Iraq before the 2nd Gulf War, but they were also in Spain, France, Israel etc, and still are. That should be no reason to attack a country, especially when these terrorist has no intent of attaking the US. So, the presence of some terrorist (who at that time had NO connections whit El Quaida) should not have been the reason to attack.
Your president and his team lied to the world. Even Collin Powell has admitted this fact. The attack and occupying of Iraq is based on lies and false accusations.
(Oh, and I am not a supporter of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.)

What are terrorists anyway? People attacking the soldiers that occupy their nation?
When in WW2 German soldiers occupied the Netherlands there was some resistance. Now and then German soldiers got shot to dead or were attacked otherwise, and in return the Germans killed some citizens. The Germans regarded the attackers as terrorists. We regard our resisance fighters as heroes. Well, the Germans lost the war, so now the fighters are heroes.
Same goes for Iraq. Attacking the occupying soldiers can be seen as a act of terror or as an act of heroism. Depends on which side your on, and who will 'win' in the end.

It should be pretty scaring when the president of the strongest military, economical and democratic country in the world, argues that 'you are either with us, or against us'. With that sentence he ended all debate, all discussions. There was no more space for alternatives. From then on every other thought could be (and has been) explained as 'against us'.
If you study history, you will see where fascisme begins. Right here.
Luckily Bush is out of the office in a short time. My guess is that the new guy in town will be wiser and more honest. Even is McCain is going to win, I think it will be a large improvement.
"if you don't read the newspaper, you are uniformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed". (Mark Twain)

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Post by Garron » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:02 am

The UN has tried for years to define terrorism, it keep changing. I did semester in Uni on terrorism. Roughly a person/ group who use fear and not standard tactics to achive an aim, they see blowing themselves up/using bombs as their only choice, its not like they would win a conventional battle with the US/UK, and political means would fail aswell.

Prehaps being British and having fanatical Muslims blow themselves up on trains and the London Underground, makes me support it.

Iraq needed to be sorted out, they should have done it after GW1. No WMD's in Iraq? he certainly had Chemical and Biological weapons, ask the Kurdish population. Its Not hard to dig a giant pit and dump barrels of chemicals in.

I know most EU countries dont support the war in Iraq, it doesnt bother me, all it does is make us come last in the Eurovision.

I'm thankful to all soldiers serving out there, they are doing a good job.

Gaz
Last edited by Garron on Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stef
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Post by Stef » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:19 am

Garron wrote:I know most EU countries dont support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, it doesnt bother me, all it does is make us come last in the Eurovision.
most European countries (including France, Germany, Netherlands...) support Afghanistan war and have troops there, but Iraq is quite a different story.
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